tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6849319076574250282.post3423414150048508629..comments2023-11-07T03:42:31.477-05:00Comments on Chalkdust: Tailgating on the road to reformAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08156784418545421424noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6849319076574250282.post-78410021294075481462007-07-27T13:00:00.000-05:002007-07-27T13:00:00.000-05:00Another example of the capacity of connective writ...Another example of the capacity of connective writing to teach: I had not pushed this thought enough--it hadn't gotten to the form that it needed to. In step Bach and Christian to help move it closer to what it can be.<BR/><BR/>In that light, Bach, I do agree that if we turn things over to students without the scaffolding necessary we end up in a big mess of self-esteem building with no actual learning taking place. What would be ideal would be to make student involvement meaningful, but do so with rigor and expectation attached. Clay's projects are beginning to reflect that. <BR/><BR/>Christian, you really extend this in the direction it should go. There is a correct marriage between collaboration with students, and mentorship with standards attached. "Here is the level I think you can reach, how do we get there?" <BR/><BR/>Maybe Bach is right; as I write this response and think of ownership of learning, I realize I didn't really pick up that concept until I was in my 20's. <BR/><BR/>Is that a product of maturity, or the system I was educated in?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08156784418545421424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6849319076574250282.post-1522594052390603202007-07-27T09:08:00.000-05:002007-07-27T09:08:00.000-05:00In response to Bach, I agree that kids -- like mos...In response to Bach, I agree that kids -- like most people, actually -- do not know what they do not know.<BR/><BR/>I do, however, suggest that it is not an either/or, or a "let the inmates run the prison" suggestion.<BR/><BR/>The simple fact is that history centered schools around the teacher for a lot of obvious reasons, and learning was a matter of what could be drilled and trained into a student. <BR/><BR/>Looking forward? Our system is clearly in need of a shake-up, and the adults who created it certainly can't unsolve it using the same mindset (see Albert Einstein for a better turn of phrase here). They need new partners in crime (for good, if you will), in other words.<BR/><BR/>Additionally, our students need to be shown how to collaborate, how to frame the essential question, how to pursue projects of value to the larger world, and how to step into leadership roles. Until the mid-1800's, western kids were expected to be 'adults' by the age of 12/13. There was no extended adolescence where they were hand-fed the 'answers'. The apprenticed in real shops, they were married, and they were expected to add to society.<BR/><BR/>It isn't a matter of 'if' our students can be co-collaborators in technical terms. It is a matter of whether or not we take them seriously...while guiding them along the way.<BR/><BR/>Cheers to Patrick for sparking the conversation.<BR/><BR/>ChristianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6849319076574250282.post-32260330953850198162007-07-27T08:23:00.000-05:002007-07-27T08:23:00.000-05:00Patrick,Although I do agree that students need to ...Patrick,<BR/><BR/>Although I do agree that students need to be included in the planning and decision making process (such as the state mandated in the student input section of the NJ tech plan this year) however, I don't believe they should necessarily be in the driver's seat.<BR/><BR/>Kids don't know what they don't know.<BR/><BR/>By this I mean that many students (at least in my experience) are not as savvy as we make them out to be and those that are are a minority. They do not possess a world-view until they are pushed to do so either by necessity or by a mentor/teacher who shows/motivates them to.<BR/><BR/>I think of my own high school experience where in the mid -80s you career path from my suburban high school was either Doctor/Lawyer/Big Business -- Cop/Nurse/Teacher -- McDonalds<BR/><BR/>on the specturm. None of us knew any better and not many helped us see any differently. I didn;t see more clearly until I got tho college, and even there it took until my senior year. I may have been involved in my own little "mini relvolutions" such as your bike lane protest, but I question if you or I or anyone sees the "bigger picture" more than that moment?<BR/><BR/>That is what good teachers are for-- the guides for the naive energy and wanting of youth.<BR/><BR/>(In re-reading this it sounds pretty heavy for a Friday. I'll blame the extra large iced coffee I'm drinking.)Barry Bachenheimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17145587794589872889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6849319076574250282.post-38655132961466701312007-07-27T05:51:00.000-05:002007-07-27T05:51:00.000-05:00Clay,I have to say, when I wrote this one yesterda...Clay,<BR/><BR/>I have to say, when I wrote this one yesterday, your push for student-driven, "real" learning was in the back of my mind. <BR/><BR/>What we need are visionaries in the classroom; forward-thinking teachers who see this direction and seize the opportunity to institute some authentic experiences for their students, not just something that will be filed (if we are lucky) and discarded at the end of the year.<BR/><BR/>Looking forward to showing off some of your collaborative wikis on Monday-Tuesday of this week during my wiki workshop.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08156784418545421424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6849319076574250282.post-57361573049437345602007-07-27T00:42:00.000-05:002007-07-27T00:42:00.000-05:00Yep. I've written a dream of seeing students lead ...Yep. I've written a dream of seeing students lead their k-12 schools to join the 200+ American universities in taking the "Carbon-Neutral Pledge." <BR/><BR/>That's one example of how they can drive instead of take back seat.<BR/><BR/>Others inside the classroom, as long as we teachers and adminners remain schooly - that's tougher. Not impossible, but tougher.CBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11236657531187596253noreply@blogger.com